Sorry to all for extending this thread, but I have some personal experience that is relevent. I worked at a local utility that was publicly traded. I was outsourced to a US based company and I can tell you it was 4 years of pure hell. I think my former employer learned a lesson, but they are locked in to the agreement because they are so huge and the talent has taken off to all regions of the country (USofA). What I have to add is this, if you add no value besides doing reorgs and meeting SLA's, then you have a very valid reason to be concerned about outsourcing. On the other hand, if you are flexible (as I consider most DBA's to be) and read the rags, then you know what is coming already and have started to position. Most large companies will at least look at outsourcing in one form or another, there is a LOT on the line and they are conceerned (justifiably) about level of service. what I can tell you is that outsourcing will guarantee a level of service, the lowest p!
ossible to finagle in the contract. Your "extra" hours will be billed, and the outsourcer will keep you around as long as you are valuable. I am not sure how companies think their bottom line improves, except maybe they lose one expense and gain another that is a write off.

I have read reports from Gartner and the like and the most in demand job in the IT feild in ten years will be PM's followed by none other than DBA. What we do will be drastically different as others have eluded to, but we still will upgrade the DB and manage it to a degree.

As for the young lady that started this whole discussion, I put forth a little philosophy. "Persue your dreams." If you want to become invaluable to a company and demanded to be available at all hours and love the challenge of being pulled into just about every IT issue in the company, then by all means pursue becoming a DBA. Note that almost all of the other advice applies here as well. Your job may be outsourced, if you are not very good at your job, you may not make much. As for what database, what is the one being pushed or given away today will be different tomorrow. Last basic skills will get you most of the way, then your ability will do the rest.

Best of luck to you

PL
>
> From: "Andrew Borth " <db2udbdba-ezmlmshield-x34145456.[Email address protected]
> Date: 2005/06/24 Fri PM 12:20:18 EDT
> To: "LazyDBA Discussion" <[Email address protected]
> Subject: RE: DBA Role
>
> A lot of good discussion here!
>
> I think we are seeing SOME shift in corporate culture from the NOW NOW
> NOW mentality. Again, I make the point that knowledge in a 'mission
> critical' function of your company = job security. If you are pure
> 'techie' and care/know nothing for the core function of your company -
> watch out!
>
> Since management is non-technical - learn to speak their language.
> People who can do BOTH IT and know the business are like gold.
> Communication is often very important to these types.
>
> Remember that if you refer to RI and RDBMS and data cleansing, you are
> not speaking English as they know it - therefore to them, there is
> little difference in giving your job to someone else. If you can say to
> them that YOU saved the company $$$ by doing task xxx, and you are
> critical to the work - that may get through.
>
> Also though - I am spoiled - I work for a very big insurance company
> that has never been publicly traded (and probably never will). Very
> different than the strictly for profit world.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: db2udbdba-ezmlmshield-x59180734.[Email address protected]
> [mailto:db2udbdba-ezmlmshield-x59180734.[Email address protected]
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:53 AM
> To: [Email address protected]
> Subject: RE: DBA Role
>
>
> Dick, you are bringing up valid, logical points.
> They make sense to me. However, the people that
> swing the axe, are generally non-technical. They
> simply don't now what we do, or how important we
> are to bottom line. All they see are the $$$$ signs,
> and will stop at nothing to save few for the "shareholders"... These
> people think that just about anybody can do what
> we do.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ivan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Goulet Dick
> [mailto:db2udbdba-ezmlmshield-x3554684.[Email address protected]
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:23 AM
> To: LazyDBA Discussion
> Subject: RE: DBA Role
>
>
> Ivan,
>
> You are most welcome to your opinion, clearly we all have them.
> But may I disagree with you? The days of the DBA are not dying,
> although the job is morphing from what we consider the traditional DBA.
> A recent study, now don't quote me as I'm working from memory here, by
> the Meta Group states that 90% of the outsourcing failures are due to
> insufficient technical competency at the home location. Putting that
> into English states that not having a DBA and developer at the local
> office is causing outsourcing agreements to fail when things go wrong.
> Outsourcers tend to try to minimize their costs by implementing RAC and
> massive databases where your companies data is just a schema in their
> database. Not having local talent that understands the implications of
> those actions can be castrophic. So what does that mean to us DBA's?
> Our role in the enterprise is changing from a database manager to a
> manager of contractors. Also the use of regional or departmental
> database is rising, once again, which causes a further need for local
> talent. Cheer up, the screw is still turning!!
>
> BTW: One outside, and off topic sort of, note from Public Radio is that
> many manufacturing jobs migrated to Mexico some years ago due to the
> cheaper labor pool there. Since that time workers there have learned
> from their outsourced American brothers and formed unions, etc...
> driving up the cost of labor. Therefore the jobs are once again
> migrating to China or surprisingly back home. Seems that some in
> Corporate America believe it is better to pay the higher costs of labor
> at home vs. the constantly changing conditions, and migration costs,
> abroad. As the economist who participated in the report put it, "It's
> nice to say I told you so." Could a similar occurrence happen in IT,
> why not!! (Yes I am the eternal optimist.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Krnic Ivan B. [mailto:db2udbdba-ezmlmshield-x41701711.[Email
> address protected]
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 9:58 AM
> To: LazyDBA Discussion
> Subject: RE: DBA Role
>
> The days of DBAs are numbered...
> Jobs are going to the lowest bidder (overseas),
> while older guys are retiring.
> To make the matter worse, in the near future vendors
> will provide their own DBA service, in person, and
> in sophisticated software that can do most of day-to-day
> tasks. If I were younger, I would stay clear not only of DBA work, but
> clear of I.T. in general. I would chose career that allows working with
> people directly. This can never be outsourced. Sorry if I sound like a
> downer. It's just my opinion.
>
> Ivan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: McNeer Mike [mailto:db2udbdba-ezmlmshield-x37524039.[Email address
> protected]
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:29 PM
> To: LazyDBA Discussion
> Subject: RE: DBA Role
>
>
> It all depends on where you are located. I am DB2/Sybase/Sql Server. The
> Oracle guys make a heeluva a lot more money than I do. Where I am at
> Oracle makes top dollar with more positions available. Sql Server has
> more positions and but I believe the pay will only go lower. There are
> hardly any Db2 jobs in this area but I see plenty elsewhere. So it all
> depends on your locale. I would recommend looking through a job search
> engine in your area and see what prevails. MM
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lekharaju Ennam [mailto:db2udbdba-ezmlmshield-x28013339.[Email
> address protected]
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:22 PM
> To: LazyDBA Discussion
> Subject: RE: DBA Role
>
> DB2 DBA get more money than Oracle or SQL Server or any RDBMS DBA
>
>
> Lekharaju Ennam
> Certified Oracle9i & DB2 UDB V8 DBA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chu Ping
> [mailto:db2udbdba-ezmlmshield-x16186577.[Email address protected]
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:34 PM
> To: LazyDBA Discussion
> Subject: RE: DBA Role
>
>
> Is this a biased view? How about the salary difference?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lekharaju Ennam [mailto:db2udbdba-ezmlmshield-x19647153.[Email
> address protected]
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:08 PM
> To: LazyDBA Discussion
> Subject: RE: DBA Role
>
>
> DB2 has demand than Oracle or SQL server in IT market, Oracle or SQL
> Server training can get any corner of the street , but not DB2
>
> Lekharaju Ennam
> Certified Oracle9i & DB2 UDB V8 DBA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jessica_l_bemis [mailto:db2udbdba-ezmlmshield-x50318122.[Email
> address protected]
> Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:00 PM
> To: LazyDBA Discussion
> Subject: DBA Role
>
>
> I am currently looking into exploring other career paths within the IT
> industry, specifically the DBA role. I am hoping that someone will be
> able to provide some insight into the DBA role, for example, which is
> the best path to go...DB2, Oracle, SQL, etc.? Are there any books you
> can recommend? What is life like in the day and life of a DBA? What are
> the different avenues available to a DBA? What certifications do
> employers look for in a DBA?
>
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
> Thank you,
> Jessica
>
>
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